MasterMine | Episode 25 S3 | Dr. Curtis D. Jasper | Psychologist/Black Male Advocate

[00:00:00] I hired a sub, older woman, Black woman, Traver the World. She was retired. Her husband had money so she was just coming to the school to help out.

[00:00:08] And I remember one day she came and she talked and she just spoke to me. She said, listen, she said when I first came, I wasn't really feeling you and I didn't like your approach but then I realized you're serious about educating black children.

[00:00:21] And she said, but here's what I want you to know and I've traveled the world. She said, you really want to educate black children. She's like fine out how you could do it outside the schoolhouse.

[00:00:32] Right? She was like fine out like go get whatever money, whatever programs and fine out. She said because you won't be able to do it in public education. Not the way it needs to be done. And that resonated with me.

[00:00:53] Welcome to MasterMine, the home of Black excellence and South Mastery. Yes, your host, Lestity. Welcome to the program. Thank you for joining us today on the journey towards self mastery. Our next guest is a former school principal turn therapist. He's also an author, a TEDx speaker,

[00:01:25] a human behavior specialist who focuses on a non-colonized therapeutic approach. He has a PhD in counseling with a specialization in metaphysical counseling. He runs a private practice called IAM International

[00:01:37] in Atlanta. He's all of the book I am the soul-lution. He's often referred to as the male version of IAM Lvansan. Let's welcome to Dr. Curtis D. Jasper to the program. He said it,

[00:01:51] I didn't thank you so much. What's going on, Mr. G? Thank you for having me. Pleasure is my man, Pleasure is my man. We had a quick convoy before the program and I was saying

[00:02:00] like I'm around across your work through YouTube. And it's interesting because not a lot of males talk about specifically black males talk about, you know, our experiences in the way that you do.

[00:02:11] And I know now only if you talk about it, but you've studied it and I have a great appreciation, you know, for the work that you're doing because not mad enough gets out about some of our struggles

[00:02:20] and things that we go through. And then the data on, you know, just talking to a large number of black men and black boys so we can find those connections and what we dealing with men.

[00:02:31] So I appreciate your work, man. Absolutely. Thank you, man. Appreciate that. Yes, sir. So this is for everybody listening in kind of want to get to know you a little bit of

[00:02:40] forget into the work that you do, man. So I know you were born and raised in South Side of Chicago 70s and 80s. So yeah, well, we do that, man. That's right. What an easy. I made it through to

[00:02:54] but it wasn't easy. Yes, sir. So what was it? What was your childhood like, man growing up? I actually thought none of them older, you know, my parents had a sees. I actually thought it was

[00:03:03] worse than in what it really was. Right. I now get from myself, but I had a pretty good childhood, right. Basic stuff raised primarily by my mom. My father was active in my life.

[00:03:15] I am the youngest of three. I have a older brother than the older sister growing up on the South Side was fun. I did well in school. I did well in athletics. Socially I did well. Things were amazing.

[00:03:25] Right. I went to a top school outside of the hood. I grew up in so I had exposure to high expectations when it came to education. I was able to take foreign languages and, you know, just take advantage of some things that weren't allowed in my neighborhood school.

[00:03:41] I didn't know where to, you know, I went to high school, did well in high school. When I waited college came back home, graduate school started off and public education as a classroom teacher. And then got into some educational consulting and training and then became an administrator.

[00:03:57] Then I left education. Got into jumping to the real estate heavily when the market was really doing well. And then this would be my second career. You know, when back to school, I had started

[00:04:09] a couple doctoral programs in the past. And so I kind of just jumped back in it and as a result of going through some tough times myself, I used not only my own healing journey of working with

[00:04:23] therapists but also studying, you know, psychology and a mental health field. So I could see how I can contribute as I was healing. So my ultimate goal would really allow me to heal

[00:04:35] is that I had an outlook on first healing myself, which there's no arrival but the ongoing journey of healing and then reaching back and putting brothers who look like me. Powerful work man, powerful work. Yeah, healing started though when you was a teenager,

[00:04:50] you went into therapy as a team like what was going on at that point in your life and what was that experience at their a physical experience? Right. Typical teenage boy stuff,

[00:05:00] acting out, getting in the fight. I did well in school so the world didn't come down on me that hard. That's the catalyst. A lot of young males, they kind of mess up and then they don't do

[00:05:12] well in school. Well I held it down in school but I kind of got into some social challenges fighting being just especially for at the house. Really just not only my own pain at the time

[00:05:23] and some of my mom she worked at a local university and part of her benefits, which she had access to all service providers. So it started out. Here's the funny thing. It actually started out

[00:05:36] as me going to therapy but it ended up being family therapy. Right. So I went to the first session and once the therapist kind of heard my story, she pulled my mom in and then my brother,

[00:05:46] then my sister, then my dad who didn't even live in the house, so it became a family therapy and we learned some vital tools. So one of the things that I know and I practice this

[00:05:55] nam as a G is that when a particular person goes in the therapy, it's really a family thing. So they're like when someone passes away or go to jail or get sick, we all have to make adjustments.

[00:06:08] We're so endeavoured as well. I get calls every day and like oh my husband, my son, I'm like there are the ones who are exhibiting the most symptoms that has gotten other agencies involved. But they're not in isolation doing these things. It's very in relationship to the relationships

[00:06:28] in the house. That's where it starts. And so I'm glad I had that experience, right? I didn't walk in the therapy like oh, ain't no no, man, I ain't talking to somebody. I walk in the

[00:06:38] therapy like everybody about to get exposed in this joint. But all right, so do you think it was like your father not being present? Like in the home? Absolutely. Absolutely. You get through your best in stage, you go through adolescent. Then you start to defy authority. Oftentimes when

[00:06:58] young black males don't have the original authority which is the father figure in the home, they start to resent and despise all forms of authority. And that includes some of their fears. Like nobody checks me, nobody tells me what to do. I'm self-sufficient and it becomes problematic.

[00:07:17] But that's where it's then from not having that safety of that male father guidance. I had it indirectly but he didn't live in a house with. So you're talking about indirectly? You mean like

[00:07:28] teacher? Yeah, yeah. Like my dad was around, right? But he didn't live in a house with me. Gotcha. So my dad, you know, he was active or I now realized he was active but there were a couple

[00:07:40] things that made his presence seeing more impactful than it did. So I went to school in outside the neighborhood. Now in my hood, it was pretty customary that dad's running around. Actually went to school where dads were around. So I went to school in upper middle class area

[00:08:02] and dads were more active for various reasons. So my dad lived in the area that I went to school in. My dad was considered upper middle class. We weren't standing with mom but he was.

[00:08:15] And I presented that. You know, it's interesting another component of like the work that you do we talk about the absence of fathers? And I felt like, you know, another key component that

[00:08:26] you mentioned is even some fathers that are in the house. Still absent and it still had an impact. So what do you think is the impact on just black children when the fathers are absent? Whether they're

[00:08:36] physically absent or emotionally absent? Well, father's provided a validation period. Girls boys, we provide the icing on top. I heard this one brother mentioned that mothers create memories and fathers help create belief. There's something to that effect. So fathers actually provide

[00:08:55] the validation. Mom has that nurturing, but you know, we kind of outgrow that. But without having that validation on a day-to-day or at least the regular basis, we tend to seek that in other areas.

[00:09:08] Right? We struggle with our self identity. What does it mean to be masculine? Right? Because we're primarily submerged with mom. Right? And mom is, is mom. So we know we're missing some critical

[00:09:21] things in our, in our development. So without debts, regular. Now, now, let me make this clear. And I share this with you. It's not all on debt. No one man can do it all. I tell you,

[00:09:33] brother, you got a best bet at it, right? You study coaches and teachers and pastors and uncles and OGs and big brothers. And you know, you need, you cannot one man doesn't possess everything

[00:09:45] any of us need. But it is a great foundation to build a part. That makes sense. That makes sense. All right. So your first career was being an educator, which eventually let it's a being a principle,

[00:09:57] why did you want to be an educator? Like what was your experience when you got there Chicago Public Schools? And then what led you out of there? That is a good question. Great questions. So I actually

[00:10:08] had a great educational experience, right? And I wanted to give that to Black boys. Right? Now my job was bus to the school, but I had a great educational experience. Right? I just did.

[00:10:20] And it's a large amount outside of my parents and my support system of where I am today. And I was on the receiving end. So I knew what it meant to receive quality education. And I

[00:10:31] made it my business to be on the other end to provide that for Black children. I focused on Black boys. I left that public education. It's because I knew once I became an administrator and had the big office and the big chair that Public School was not designed

[00:10:47] to support the development of Black boys. And so I could not continue to take the money from Black taxpayer's dollars and be a part of a system. Inundated with bureaucracy and systemic racism that was not in alignment with the full development of Black boys. And I left.

[00:11:08] Now was this specific things that you were seeing? Like at the school that you were right? Absolutely. But I had been in several schools. I was in the consultant, nationally referenced consultant.

[00:11:17] So I was able to travel around and train teachers and bears. I've been for the Deafy of Public Schools, LA, Tulsa, Birmingham, Chicago, Detroit. You name it. I've been to the major ones.

[00:11:30] I was able to step outside of Chicago Public Schools. I came to Atlanta. I was actually an administrator in Atlanta at the Food and County Schools. So I had my hand on the post

[00:11:42] of urban education. And I knew that it wasn't sufficient. Now, my particular experience. I remember this one time. I had a statistician to come in and sort of disaggregate my test scores so that

[00:11:55] I could see where to put my money in terms of instructional program. And I realized that my boys weren't doing as well as my girls. So I wanted to pull my boys for certain subjects into

[00:12:06] all gender, you know, to all gender specific classes. Right? In the school board would not let me do that. And I was like, here's the test scores. I don't need them to hold day. I get Title IX and all

[00:12:18] of your Roxy. But I need to pull boys in this great for these specific subjects at this time. And they refuse and I was like, oh, I get it. Y'all ain't interested in educating black boys.

[00:12:30] That ain't the money. You got to follow the money. Right? So the money is not irregular. The money is either especially or gifted in talent. And we definitely ended up giving the talent to like, correct. But most people don't realize

[00:12:45] that is a form of special ed as well. Yeah, absolutely. You did a talented program. Right. Right. Right about the art. So was it that like that specific experience? That was like over time ago? Or did you have like something traumatic occur where you're like, you know,

[00:13:03] I'm done or yeah, it was a series of things. I mean, I came in really to see it. So I had my eyes open. And then I had mentors. I remember one of my mentors. She wasn't a mentor. One of my mentors was

[00:13:14] like, you'll go find education. I hired a sub older woman, black woman, traveled to the world. She was retired. Her husband had money. So she was just coming to the school to have

[00:13:24] about. And I remember one day she came and she talked and she just spoke to me. She said, listen, she said when I first came, I wasn't really feeling you. I didn't like your approach. But then

[00:13:34] I realized you're serious about educating black children. And she said, what he is what I want you to know. And I've traveled to the world. She said, you really want to educate black children.

[00:13:44] She's like, find out how you could do it outside the schoolhouse. Right. She was like, find out, like go get whatever money, whatever programs and find out. She said, because you won't be able

[00:13:56] to do it in public education. Not the way it needs to be done. And that resonated with me. God had got it. All right. So fast forwarding a bit on your TED Talk. You mentioned that

[00:14:07] you know, you were heavy into the real estate game. And you went through some things in 2008 that kind of led to other things. So can you talk about that with us? And how are you able to get through

[00:14:17] that difficult time? Yeah. So around 2004, 2005, a real estate was high in Atlanta. I did really well. Right. And it's money. It got the big house, the fancy cars. Right. The Jazz Reswered doing well. And somewhere around 2009, when the market 2008, 2009, when the market started crashing,

[00:14:39] my mother became ill with cancer and she eventually transitioned. And then my marriage kind of fell apart. So financially, the bottom fell out. My marriage fell out. I was grieving my mom.

[00:14:51] And if you later, my dad hadn't recovered from any of that. I just didn't know. I went through a series of five therapists as I mentioned in the TED Talk. And I sort of crashed out for about five

[00:15:02] years. So I'll say anywhere from 2009 to 2014, late 2013, I kind of laid down on the job. Right. And lost it all. I let it crumble. And you know, when I was ready and started feeling

[00:15:21] better and did some work, I slowly came out of. Got you. So you just mentioned you went to see five therapists for them or black. And I had, you know, all the time we talk about, we need more black

[00:15:32] therapists which you mentioned that black mental health providers are about 4% of the population. And we need more for your own personal experience. The black therapist really didn't do much for you. So what was not connecting with the black therapists that when you reached the fifth therapist,

[00:15:46] which was a white therapist that you were able to get a connection. Right. Exactly. So which is in my bio, I used to turn this sort of like this uncolonized or this decolonized approach

[00:15:58] to mental health. So the black there, if it's not to throw, um, blacks solidarity to all day long, but not to throw who are now my colleagues. Now under the buzz, but at the time,

[00:16:10] their emphasis and my opinion was more on the industry itself, and really speaking to where I was. Right. They went right into the clinical aspect, the assessments, you know, the training. And I didn't know if it was the experience or that's just part of the training,

[00:16:28] but I know it didn't work for me. I kept going. And so the fifth provider, again, I wasn't focused on whether they were white black. I actually had made a commitment to a close friend of

[00:16:39] my and that I would go see one more therapist. And he happened to be a white male, right? And that was the catalyst. That was the changing when he was when he sort of spoke to me.

[00:16:48] He had tell me about anything in the mental health industry. He didn't clinicalize me. He didn't assess me. He didn't diagnose me. He just spoke to me after he listened to me.

[00:17:02] And it was that training point. I used that as the basis of mine, right? Like just be with the people. Being with the people, not the industry. The people. Got it. Got it. Now you mentioned a colonized approach to therapy. What exactly does that mean for those

[00:17:18] that are not? So mine would be uncolonized to become. That means I'm moving away from the western standard mental health approach, right? For black people specifically, we have a unique experience being black obviously in this country. But there's a different approach. There's not much research

[00:17:37] out there that I've come across that really supports our uniqueness and what I find to be destructive a lot of time is misdiagnosis because we're following the western standardized approach to mental health. Now mental health is part of the medical industrial complex, right? So that comes

[00:17:56] with the host of other things. And so what I find is we have to be unique in our approach serving black people in particular. There's a cultural competence that other people may be required

[00:18:11] but there's a cultural lived experiences that we as black people know. Right? We know you may come to me and like yeah I feel impressed and after sharing it could be the pressure from systemic

[00:18:23] racism at your job. These are that nature, right? So I'm not going to say like hey, let's go through this assessment. I'm like brother tell me more, right? So those things so I take away the white approach

[00:18:39] to practice in mental health and I use a combination of spirituality, coaching, counseling, mental health, psychology, education, metaphysics, right? Black psychology, African spirituality, Christianity, right? There's an approach that I use outside of leaning on the clinical training

[00:19:02] of being a psychologist or a mental health practice. Yeah, I got it. All right so that therapist influenced you to kind of become a therapist yourself and brought that whole process in that journey

[00:19:15] you know while you were going to be your stuff. It's had talked to you mentioned that you spent 60 days in prison for a, I guess, was the child's partner? Right. So I had Mr. Corday.

[00:19:27] It was a round child support but I had Mr. Corday and for whatever reason there was a bench one assigned to that court day and I happened to be at the emergency room during the time

[00:19:40] and although the judge received a signed excuse from a medical doctor for whatever reason he didn't believe that. So to set it at one I obviously had to go through some stuff and to be

[00:19:52] rockercy around it I ended up staying in jail 57 days and there was a component where I had to pay back child support and there was some probation around there was a man all of that stem from

[00:20:04] an event for divorce. Several years earlier right? And so I worked with brothers like just because the judge signs off on the divorce stuff just about to get started. I've heard of it. It was

[00:20:18] some collateral damage as a result of a very complex divorce and such and I actually went to jail two days after I returned from Chicago of my father had passed and looking back now it was probably

[00:20:33] the best rest I've ever gotten in my life 57 days I was able to grieve my dad. I mean obviously I had this being the cell with a cell in where the jumpsuit for 57 days but I was able to rest and

[00:20:44] sort of get off the grid. It wasn't easy but it wasn't necessarily that's interesting so I guess that inspired you to write your book you are the solution right? So it's S-O-U-L

[00:20:56] solution so people might be like I you're saying that people are the solution themselves so why would I go and see a doctor Jasper you know I'm saying if I'm the solution myself correct correct because you

[00:21:08] sometimes we need fresh eyes of fresh voice and some fresh ears on our situation what I know from my lived experiences is there are other people in the form of blessings

[00:21:17] who speak specifically to us right for me it was a teacher a same teacher I have for five years in a row and my mother and other people have come into my life so my job as an educator is to remind

[00:21:30] you that you the power is within and we can talk out of stuff we want right I'm not hit a motor or dissect you I'm hit a reminder of your greatness I'm hit a reminder that everything you need is within

[00:21:43] and I'm hit a walk this journey alongside of you but first and foremost I'm not the magician I'm not the superhero you are and I can tell you that because I've been through a lot of what

[00:21:56] the average brother who comes to me has been through all of it and you're book you also talk about you had to change your mind state you know that means to realize that you were the solution

[00:22:10] and some people might view that as like you blame yourself for your circumstances of what happened but was it you blaming yourself or was it you putting it the responsibility on yourself and

[00:22:19] what was it? It was me owning myself it was me taking back my power I wasn't blaming myself but what I was and I wasn't blaming other people I didn't stop blaming my father my ex-wife

[00:22:32] the judicial system right I had a long larger list of who to blame so what I realized is that anger that resentment that rage around blaming folks caused me some very challenging things

[00:22:47] so me taking the only thing that I had left was to go with them I did what they said out house I ran out with school I kept I stayed out of jail coming up like I did all the right

[00:22:59] thing I realized that this was something I had to do from the inside out so I wasn't blaming myself I owned a hundred percent of the things that happened to him and it's only it's like real estate you

[00:23:11] only can sell release of these airbomb be out something that you own first so I had to own it once I owned it then I was able to really really support myself but my doubt is just my way of

[00:23:25] taking my power back and it wasn't easy that makes sense it makes sense part of that you mentioned in your book too that one of the things that you do mental health wise is to try to something new

[00:23:37] every day or try as much as possible so what impact did that really have for you and what do you think is the importance of us not staying with the same kind of routine you know regularly and things like

[00:23:49] it's confidence it's really really really taking stretching yourself and finding it's to self discovery that actually aids in the healing journey so trying things new things right you got to

[00:24:01] try things you got almost you have to fail your way to success right and part of that is most people are afraid to try things because they are overly consumed with not just failure but what others are

[00:24:12] going to think and so I try things knowing that the discipline builds the confidence and the confidence sustains the discipline so you start off small whether it's writing a page in your journal or doing some reading exercises or meditating or making your bed or doing five push-ups

[00:24:29] it's really misdeget about making promises to yourself and keeping them most of us have been let down with people who have made promises to ourselves our wives with vows our parents people right we are heartbroken from promises being broken the last person that we need to

[00:24:46] blame as ourselves trying new things is our way of making promises and making good on those promises it's the healing other heart that makes sense speaking the healing one of the tough things I know

[00:25:00] going through a divorce and all that is learning and you mentioned in your book too to forgive your ex-wife and to forgive yourself man so how did you learn to forgive those you know

[00:25:10] two important people in your life? What needs to be? Forgiveness is an ongoing process you got to let that thing go sometimes okay they won't they wake up like I forgive you as heavy as it is

[00:25:21] depending on how heavy the burden is will be how many times you got to release it so you are unwillingness is there so there's a forgiveness and there's a release if you can't really

[00:25:33] hold the pain in the anger around and say I forgive you from a lip service standpoint this is you really got to release them like I forgive myself one of the things that I know is

[00:25:44] she can't forgive others unless she first forgive yourself try to forgive myself for my role in the relationship didn't you give myself for choosing her not that it was a bad choice I'm grateful

[00:25:56] but I did forgive myself when I was able to forgive myself is the way I was able to extend forgiveness to her but she wasn't only one I had to forgive my father I had to forgive a few people

[00:26:06] she was just at the top of the list but she wasn't the whole list that makes sense man I think that a lot of us can learn to forgive man because we hold on through a lot of anger and resentment

[00:26:19] especially like with relationships when things don't work out or you're on the outside you know with the kids and all that and you not getting those experiences and some people tend to

[00:26:28] resent their partners man because of that so that's powerful man so the next part of your journey was transitioning into being a mental health professional and for your dissertation you did a study on in the emotional intelligence of black males I think emotional intelligence is something that

[00:26:45] we don't talk about enough of especially in the black community so what did you kind of learn through your dissertation covering and learning about examining black males boys and men that you

[00:26:56] kind of take with you and you teach right so first and foremost I realized it started with myself that the majority of us are emotionally illiterate right we like the intelligence because we like the awareness and the literacy and the intelligence and we like how to support ourselves

[00:27:16] emotional intelligence in it of itself is our ability to experience emotions right to regulate our emotions with and still support ourselves and our well-being what I find is we just hadn't been

[00:27:30] taught that and be even though we are open to learning and now there's a unique approach that we must do for black males and particularly right and that's where the decolonized approach come in

[00:27:42] so it was too far when I went through my tough times I couldn't smart my way dug my way for nests my way I couldn't do anything I really had to surrender the one thing I was missing is

[00:27:56] I'm not clear about this feeling I know I'm pissed I know I'm angry I know I'm rageful but it never occurred to me that I'm sad that I'm disappointed that I'm mad as hell right then I'm heartbroken

[00:28:09] and as guilt and shame I never know whenever spoke to me on that level right so I didn't even had that aha moment when I heard it like and so I could learn that right and then when I learned

[00:28:22] that I had to realize that there's an approach that I have to do that for black men right you can't just come up through a brother like so you said tell me what happened in second grade and but not

[00:28:34] now I got to come like this like bro what's good what happened right and then as they talk and then they describe a story Mr. G didn't say yeah and then I was angered and then I was slipping where you angered where you disappointed it was like

[00:28:50] I was disappointed I was disappointed I was like yeah because disappointed means unmet expectations and because we don't like feeling bad I defaulted his anger we don't like feeling bad so we mad because we feel bad all right that makes it's unacense now for those that are like

[00:29:08] acknowledging this and being like yo you know my emotional and tell us this isn't that good like how do you go about improving it and being emotionally literate like you just mentioned right so the first thing the first step is awareness right just becoming aware of how you're

[00:29:24] feeling in any given moment there's a check-in like how you feeling bro like I do it now for regular how you feeling you could sad happy I'm all right because oftentimes it's not an emotional

[00:29:35] thing it could be a physical thing right they call this some brothers they ain't eight all day some brothers dehydrated some brothers need to move day bow it is a struggle all right so the

[00:29:44] check-in is how you doing moment to moment day today so once you begin get that awareness right then there's the literacy like let me assign language to my feeling I'm an angry is different

[00:29:57] demand angry means uh there's some unjust and unfairness right where this George Floyd or the give the guy that just got killed by the five blackhouses like I'm angry about that but mad is

[00:30:09] the feeling of being personally violated hmm I may be angry because something that's having in the community but I'm mad as hell if you stole my identity and ran up my credit card that's

[00:30:20] damn it I'm mad it's a you personally violated me right that's it feels different in the body so when you talk to a brother like that you look I had a guy then when you say sad that's the experience

[00:30:32] as the result of loss right and when you ask tell a brother hey uh as black men we are grieving more living things than things that have passed on like we're grieving the relationship we lost in

[00:30:45] high school and cause we're grieving when uh the young lady we was dating had that abortion we're grieving when we lost our job we're grieving like we've grieving things a lot right you know

[00:30:58] just talking with brothers build that literacy they can assign words to how they feel now you gotta be experts on it and then the second the third part is the intelligence sort of accrues like we

[00:31:10] learn anything else and then the four part is the jeez the fitness it's like hoping or whatever we do we know we gotta show up and we gotta practice our game there's no difference with emotion

[00:31:22] we have to be emotionally fit because we know life ain't getting easier but we can be better at supporting ourselves hmm that is interesting for you personally when you went to you that that fifth

[00:31:33] therapist you thought you were depressed and I feel like a lot of us you know confused depression with sadness and other things so for those that you know are struggling with the mental health

[00:31:42] how do they understand the difference between actually being depressed and being sad right so there's a lot of talk around that right and there's a difference between the culture right so you could be

[00:31:55] classified as critically depressed uh when you um at a point where you're sort of feeling bad and there's a duration right there's a limit you're not able to do your daily uh responsibilities

[00:32:07] right it's sort of a prolonged um thing but there's about some sadness that we come just for being black living in this in this experience at this time right it can be classified based on which

[00:32:19] assessment you use one of the things that are often just talking it through with people and allowing them to assign it to what really sticks for so I don't go around saying nae yand the pressure said

[00:32:31] I do say like what is it for like is it like have you been in the bed for weeks and a shower day and eight and went to work or are you just resting because your nervous system is overloading

[00:32:42] you are mostly exhausted hmm and so for me right I lost everything but I still went to the gym because that was my way of pushing through could I've been the functionally depressed yes

[00:32:55] but I also realized that I was sad right but I didn't you know I didn't have there were times where I thought about ending it all the complexities that come with feeling bad for certain amount of

[00:33:06] time but I find that talking it through as a black man what other black man and allowing them to be like yeah that's it or not that's it that ain't it right allowing them to you know as opposed to saying

[00:33:18] here's what I think you are it seems that you're clinically depressed and you need to take this an eyebrow and doing that interesting now part of what you talking about too is a support network

[00:33:28] tool man I feel like there's not enough support for black males specifically and a lot of the outside does not understand the black male whether they enjoy phase the team phase of the man

[00:33:40] phase so I just want to go through that real quick like for people on the outside the black mothers the black siblings the the people in the community how can they support these different groups

[00:33:50] of black males when we're looking at black boys how can they be a support for black boys in regards to their mental health and then teens and men yeah outside of wonderful platforms like you

[00:34:01] have now just really highlighting people who are doing the work and who have been through it that's one way but when it comes to rearing young black males there's it's so complex that we need

[00:34:13] a bunch of moving parts right and so it could be a present dead or not there's there's some developmental spiritual educational physical emotional things that are required right that are required young black boys a unique experience in rearing young black boys particularly now we have

[00:34:34] a stronghold of social media right but a lot of our young boys have been sexually violated so what turns out when their teenagers and they still in cars and grabbing that pistol and

[00:34:47] robin folk they are trying to offset the struggle of their own self identity because of some previously lived experiences that they have never shared with anybody you know and so I get a lot of

[00:35:00] that right so we need to make sure that young black boys are in contact with some form of mental health support like anything else they it doesn't have they they're not broken to

[00:35:15] the point where we got a car when they need to go just like the dentist you want to get a physical and needs to be something that's maintenance not preventative not intervention right just

[00:35:26] maintenance things so those are some of the things but then as you know there's first data this brothers like you who are just having platform spread in the word there's books there's barbershop there's conversations there's mentoring mentoring is key mentoring is key so it's going to

[00:35:43] take all of us doing a lot of things for very long time because you know each brothers different right you can meet them on the basketball court you made me the matter at a rat battle at a

[00:35:54] cipher you may have to go to school go where they are you want to reach a white boys go where they are don't have come to you go where they are and if you're not willing to go where they are

[00:36:05] then it's a for you facts facts all right so let's say I noticed that my black boy needs a doctor Jasper but you know they've less than 4% how do I go about finding somebody mental health

[00:36:18] wise that's going to be right for them right it'll take oftentimes it takes a while it's sort of like finding the new barbro dry clean and sometimes you got a test drive a few things but the

[00:36:29] power social media in online is we have access and a lady called me today for example one of me to work with her husband she's like what's the best I get this every week what's the

[00:36:40] breast approach to bring my black male to you where these my son my brother and then and I said introduce me to him online don't like yeah good you need to go talk to Dr. Jasper

[00:36:51] hurt you can be like look there's a dude online check him out let me know what you think gradually do that right see if they resonate me I'm a regular dude right you say he

[00:37:02] be like I went t-shirts jeans and Jordan ones right I'm not here to talk over their head so one of the ways to do that is to pose people like me because this is a few brothers out there that I can

[00:37:16] really a lot these young people on their phones anyway we could really be like you say dude and you know and just say let me know what you're thinking gradually it should do stack

[00:37:29] to young black boys you'd be surprised on who young black boys gravitate towards yeah that tons of they they rappers they could be famous rappers they could be professional athletes you'd be

[00:37:41] surprised who reaches out to me and some of them follow me for eight nine seven months they won't say down for a while until one day they like let me hit dude up right and I just want

[00:37:52] them to know that I exist hmm when they ready I'm here got it got it now I think personally like and I see this with a lot of black males boys teens men one of the things that I know you

[00:38:05] mentioned before that we struggle with is managing our anger right and we do a lot of regrettable things in each category with our anger so what advice do you have with a black boy

[00:38:17] is in black men that struggle with their anger I've heard you know men just like you're I got anger issues like they just accept it like they don't even try to fix it they don't try to resolve

[00:38:26] it this is my reality so what advice do you have for those men that really struggle with their anger so two things to show up as I listen to your question the first thing is try to be clear on

[00:38:35] what it means to manage emotion there's no managing emotions the only part we need to manage is our reactions to the emotion right and when we get that over to the middle like it's okay

[00:38:46] for you to be angry it ain't okay for you to act out angrily and be destructive right it's okay for you to sit and be like I'm pissed like this and you know what I mean like get it out like

[00:38:57] that parts okay we actually we made it taboo that black man can't even feel bad right there's no managing the energy we don't know how emotions work so the first thing is there is no

[00:39:08] managing the emotions in it of itself emotions coming they go the only part that we can manage is the difference between our reactions versus our response and and that takes some techniques and some tools and support the other part is to teach young black males how emotions work

[00:39:24] we're not even sure how it works right we're not we don't know the connection between thoughts feelings and emotions and how that acts out in the behavior so talking with a young black

[00:39:35] male or older and speaking to his level for something he can grasp using his lived experiences an example allow him to be like on that make sense let me try it let me try it so there's some

[00:39:48] cultural things they get in the way we overly express what we anger we think there's something to do to alleviate the angry with the anger when the anger is in the body the emotions are in the mind

[00:40:00] right then the body they express they are propelled through the thoughts and the body and so if we could teach young black boys how to support themselves physically right there's

[00:40:12] some things to do when you get angry it may not be punching his wife all right it may not be texting your girl all crazy right it may be jotting down and doing some pushups I know a sound

[00:40:24] crazy it may be sitting back and doing some breathing exercises it may be going to get a drink a water I just need you to practice the pulse if you can practice the pulse and start breathing

[00:40:36] you can prove to your body in your mind you don't have to stop being angry you have to manage the behavior that the anger sort of propels you to do that makes a ton of sense man another part

[00:40:48] of this is like the outside support where black boys black men are you know expressing their emotions and then you got mothers parents I like why don't want to raise my kid to be soft and crying all the

[00:41:00] time but doing this in that it got to be tough and you got maybe part of saying like well how they're gonna be my protector and they saw been over here doing this and then the third they got issues so

[00:41:10] how should the people on the outside helping black men the family the wives the girlfriends on their partners be thinking about you know they're meant to help and providing support even

[00:41:20] in times where they might look weak right so looking weak is relative right there's a lot of things crying distress hormones that's released and crying that's cleansing and that's energy that's kind of released in that we take on again my decarious uncarner approach we'll take on more capitalism

[00:41:37] races and patriarchy in terms of how they how they need to be superhero says who says who says who does that even I stop says oh he's not weak cuz he cried he's not that's super powerful

[00:41:53] and being sensitive right that's super powerful I think we need to reshape how we even view each other particularly black males right don't have to be super hard right there's who made this up

[00:42:07] oftentimes capitalism and systemic racism has caused us to put up things that are not even necessary or it working in our favor right so you think he has to protect and provide because

[00:42:20] he never cried and he after doing blue collar hard labor that ain't it so making it safe spaces teaching the community that does levels to what it means to be strong right there's healing

[00:42:34] in his wound in this neither them are predicated on strength or weakness most of it has to do with the support and the tools on the journey to recovery brother to cry he ain't weak that's his

[00:42:46] weight that says weight right so things that I nature just educating us on what it means to be a cumulative holistic male like we think a man like if he cried this is this is a black male

[00:43:01] if he cried as this part I did your love this part although this part may make you uncomfortable he's a cumulative comprehensive male you have limited to him to be in his brooobroobro

[00:43:15] overly hyper masculine mm-hmm this is us guy we love and fragments of black males some of them are sons and you know people in our family now you combine your therapeutic approach to spirituality

[00:43:30] metaphysics and some people might be like well that's way out there like so for those that just don't understand that component can you can you really dissect that for us right so I have a license to say

[00:43:39] that whatever comes up in your session we're gonna go there that's basically it if you say we talking about God Buddha mother Teresa the devil bear kind that's where we're going I'm gonna meet you

[00:43:52] where you are I have the skill set the knowledge and expertise to allow whatever healing modality that the person kind of latches on to that's where we're gonna go I'm not here to

[00:44:04] fit you into what I think is best I'm here to help co-create this new curriculum for living with you all of us have a belief in something so if half-year session you want to talk about your belief

[00:44:17] and God are growing up in the church that's what we're talking about right and the other part is working with couples you know I have the ability to have the counseling couples I have the

[00:44:25] ability to marry them so there's a lot of benefits in my approach to serving people I'm here to serve the people right as a result of that so I combined my unique my educational approach I'm

[00:44:36] going to teach you how to heal yourself with the hopes of you sharing it which I love one if I could assist you and healing you then I know you can hear your family you hear your family

[00:44:46] and a notephyme you can hear the community we hear the community we can hear the large community and that's my goal now all you know we we had the experience of the pandemic where you are doing

[00:44:56] a lot of virtual counseling and things like that what if you notice within black men and men within the pandemic experience you know connecting what they're going through right now and then mental health because I feel like a lot of times when we talk about the pandemic

[00:45:10] we're talking about the women the mothers and what they experience but not really you know the men so what if you notice with the men it's funny I actually got more indications of disruptions with the mother and the children the women and the children the brothers was in

[00:45:25] they didn't come out until later towards the tail end ironically it's almost and I want to be care for I said it's almost like the brothers were arrested it's almost like the world slowed down whether brothers were resting I mean it wasn't worried about necessarily providing because

[00:45:43] what nothing moving at the time but they were resting and I'm not sure there's lots of black men have had that amount of rest being at home just chilling the rest that was given

[00:45:56] to the black man has served them well not when they came out of the pandemic like where I'm supposed to do that's when they help but the women and the children the women work stop parenting home

[00:46:09] school and I got more calls from an I primarily service man we're doing the pandemic I work with a lot of women the brothers was like look we don't collect unemployment we don't go to the

[00:46:19] food bank we don't wear masks and we don't play these video games and chill we are as we good like a net in moving it wasn't like the women were out earning the men at the time all

[00:46:32] of us was chill and it was like I'm chillin it's our crazy but that's my experience the brothers are like I'm chillin and when it was time to get back out in the real world then it's like

[00:46:45] oh now I'm feeling the struggle and that's when I started doing intense work with brothers is interesting so speaking of your work um can you talk about I am international like what is the work that you're doing with your organization and you know some of the work that

[00:47:03] and things that you're doing right now right so I do a lot of consulting and lecturing for corporate and learning institutions almost on a weekly basis I may be doing a keynote for a major 500 you know Fortune 500 corporation talking to particularly black and brown employees on how

[00:47:21] to support themselves when mental and emotional standpoint and how corporate could do a better job of support so the I am is me that's my teaching part right so the primary my primary focus is

[00:47:33] teaching people on how to support themselves not identify their symptoms and then you know diagnosed them that's not my style that's not even what I do teaching people right so they could go ahead and heal themselves how do you sustain your mental health outside us working with me

[00:47:53] so I am in the national separate company that allows me to do broader things like corporate lecturing, keynotes and consulting work for learning and other organizations. Alright um for wrap up I want to get into a quick little activity it called was your favorite

[00:48:12] identify few of your favorite things um good elaborate or keep it short and simple so I don't know if you still go through therapy sessions yourself right now but what's been

[00:48:21] your favorite therapy session that you've ever had so I gotta I do go to therapy from time to time but one of my best therapy sessions are the ones where I get to laugh. That's where you know

[00:48:34] there's a part at the beginning and then there's a part at the end where we could just chop it up you know those are the fun was I actually stole that approach too so my favorite therapy session

[00:48:45] is like when we logged on like what's going on was good how do family look check her chuckle then we get into business and then we end with that it's that unique bonding approach that

[00:48:56] they're really really just ones my heart on both sides when I'm a client in the patient as well as serving other of the other and the bitch catch you. And what is your favorite thing to do for your

[00:49:05] own mental health outside of therapy? Work out every I journal meditate work out every minute of gym every day at seven in the morning just keeping it balanced I mean obviously I'm trying to stay

[00:49:16] in shape I'll be 52 and two weeks but it really balances me out. So I tell every man that I speak to particularly I work had a brother today his first session I'm like bro you gotta work out

[00:49:29] you gotta work you gotta move that body there's so much emotional energy stored from years ago need you to leave it on the gym floor I need you to really you're going to be surprised at a magic

[00:49:41] that's gonna come emotionally as a result of working out let the sexiness and the muscles be the bonus right but trust me bro trust me on that I need your but in that gym so working out

[00:49:55] reading generally has has really been my thing. God and speaking of the books man what is some of your favorite books I know you've mentioned you read four five books a month yeah I'm reading

[00:50:04] this thick book called The Myth of Normal by this medical doctor his name is I can't think of his thick book I just got it but I usually read two at a time and go through about four five at

[00:50:16] a month and I really read just to stay calm like calm is my pot of super power I'm not really trying to rack up some new you know like there was a time where I was like let me go think

[00:50:32] how well versus I am nice it's like let me go in my library and chill out for about two hours as a gift to myself so I read more casually I mean when it's time to do research or prepare

[00:50:43] for a lecture of course I gotta go in but on the day to day bro I'm just kicking out back with a good book man enjoying the time. I give me some life change and join start at your

[00:50:54] bread but you were like whoa that's everywhere you know there's a time where when I'm reading now like I read a quote I share the video says healing and guaranteed but it is available right

[00:51:07] and I was like whoa I said I was like whoa so when I get those world moments I usually share that online with social media with the hopes of somebody else and whoa right so there's a

[00:51:18] world with me I'm like yeah I gotta you know let me not keep this to myself so I share my walls like and they could be for me anyway I could be reading or driving down the street

[00:51:30] or listening to a song I'd be like whoa let me write that down because my whole is to reach that one brother who has been up all night for days who's sitting on the edge of that bed

[00:51:41] just ready to crash out and if you can come across me with that one thing man and just just get them through the night let's sit because I've been there and so you know that's one of my

[00:51:52] one of my intentions. God it favorite thing that a black male has taught you favorite thing that a black male has taught me that's great to keep showing up and that was my father

[00:52:04] he was like 90% of it is showing up and right now I feel like just keep showing up and I use that where it's going to the gym or in private practice or even in a relationship man

[00:52:17] just show up just show up there's a sand that I got from the guy on the line that I tell my guys just get your car to the gym and we're about working now first week for just get your

[00:52:29] cock to the gym and I live like just show up to the gym let it go for it. Don't overthink it get your car to the gym that's the thing. All right favorite thing that made you

[00:52:43] or a moment or event that made you proud to be a black man. I got so many I work with a lot of young ones one of the things this is this is one of two have a black male early

[00:52:57] 20s young late teens come up to me and say I really want to do what you're doing in world as rude of my right he got his pants hanging he got likes everywhere he got tats on his face

[00:53:12] and for him to be like I like how you move and I really want to do something like that that makes me proud right to be a black man the other part is just on my own experience Mr. G

[00:53:28] just really out of pointing my life where I'm just grateful for it all I'm not cherry picking on this is hard this was week I'm grateful for it all and to be able to share share screen with another

[00:53:39] brother and looking in the face and it's like I feel you and you're gonna be okay makes me proud and as my effect that's one of my goals very first session I said my mango for you

[00:53:52] is to make you feel proud about who you are inspired of the things you've been through. I'm powerful. That's powerful man. What's your favorite program or event that you've been a part of?

[00:54:03] I got so many of them let us make man is a locally-vend here that does a lot for the black males in the community I mean they do tons next level boys economy is an organization here that

[00:54:16] just lying in my making myself available for organizations who specifically serve in black males and it's quite a few and those are just the two that I physically go to. I just recently

[00:54:26] was invited to do a need at a barber shop there was a schedule complex I hadn't done that one of the things that I'm grateful for Mr. G is I get I often get a lot of invitations like

[00:54:36] brother pull up we can't be having I'm grateful to be able to you know just be where I am in integrity and being a servant where brothers like yourself invite me in I don't take entities for granted or

[00:54:48] like I'm grateful for the invitation so anytime I brother asked me to pull up and let's get it alive you know I'm there man appreciate that the favorite person that you would like to sit down

[00:55:00] and chat with that alive my mother right bless us oh she's passed on and of course I chat with her you know in spirit just to kind of get her taken where I am now that you know like what you make

[00:55:14] all this mom that would be ideal for me to hear my mom sort of you know ad words to how she think I'm doing and where I am now. God I got it what's been your favorite life gem that anybody has

[00:55:30] given you favorite life gem that's good one who you are enough who you are enough like I'm had that would draw them alive like who you are enough. Gotcha you know some some black males might be

[00:55:45] listening to this like oh we I need to do this man we need more doctor jazz was out there I want to become that you know and they're gonna be trying to become that and within that 4% so based on your

[00:55:56] experiences and your navigation whatever advice would you have for those that are like you I want to be you know I want to do what Dr. Jasper's doing when you find someone who is an indirect mentor

[00:56:06] whether it's me or this plenty brothers out there not alive but plenty of study them right we study study them right read a book read a post right check in with them watch their videos

[00:56:20] right we do it to other people we do it to these rappers we do it to these basketball players find someone who you really rock with and study them right ask them questions like you're asking me

[00:56:33] I'm gonna be like bro where you get all this stuff bro this is a period is hard bro you are not playing you know I get this all the time they are not as prepared as you bro not all so we should

[00:56:46] but that that's the work right so brothers watching this can somehow reach out to someone they've been rocking with and say I saw your videos I heard you text like I read your book right I tell

[00:56:59] brothers that before you jump in my dance right check to see if I'm even your dude right hmm check to see if I'm even your person I don't got it all together bro trust me it's still

[00:57:12] rough over here but check you know rock with me before you jump in and say so let me know if I'm your guy if I'm your guy let's get it hmm so find someone who you rock with and exhaust the material

[00:57:25] they have put forth I put it out there for that very reason but the time you call me I should be your guy at least unless it just goes down here from there that makes a sense of shit life right that's

[00:57:37] my reason for saying trying to flex I'm trying to allow you all to know who I am with the helps up saying I choose you and that I'm grateful for powerful men now you're doing so much work

[00:57:48] with the community you're doing so much work for black males black boys black men what is that legacy that you're trying to create and leave behind what it's all said and done man it's good man

[00:57:58] I just want to be known for only my space and doing it my way right I tell brothers all the time I'm choosing me first and I'm causing no harm right tell brothers choose you first mean take care of

[00:58:13] self first and cause no harm when I mean harm I mean like direct harm obviously there's some things that come with that but choose you first take care yourself you meant I want to be known as someone

[00:58:26] who was available someone who is authentic and flaw-pho and someone who you know it's comfortable and who he who is all right long after my days I want not only my children but the community to be like

[00:58:43] you know I want I like some of my written work to be classics and not from an ego from my state standpoint but for some people like man that's been 50 years that's still resonate with

[00:58:55] mm-hmm I know I've done my job on that level but I'm still growing man I still got a lot to learn I'm still making errors the good thing is I'm not taking it nearly as personal Mr. J and I'm still

[00:59:06] doing the healing work thank you for that man for those that want some more of Dr. Jasper even asking questions or maybe for mental health where can they find you all along line man

[00:59:18] I am Dr. Kirton Instagram I am a website Dr. Curtis DJs with dot com on my Facebook as Dr. Curtis DJs or Antwerp is as if there's a Google all fails as a Google search there's a number out there

[00:59:32] it comes right to the business find I ain't hard to find and I'm open to making a difference right I'm open to making a difference so anybody is out there this resonates with you

[00:59:41] you need to have you know just pull up I ain't hard to find here it is there is thank you so much Dr. Jasper man for your judgment see you man can you be with us with your

[00:59:52] favorite quote and what it means to you uncertainty is nothing but pure possibility uncertainty is nothing but pure possibility so the things that we uncertain for have to choose to remind yourself that only other side of uncertainty is everything yeah definitely left us with some gems today

[01:00:14] that's what I appreciate likewise man definitely would love to have you back on a program thank you so much for spending some time with us man I know you're busy doing you know I'm a major manager diligence and your professionalism and hopefully earn you know people's

[01:00:30] attention in respect because we're trying to build the black elected man so that's hard I check out a few of yours man you doing yeah yeah so yeah I'm sorry yeah I'm like okay my man doing it

[01:00:46] but sure yeah we trying to you know we all need to be doing serious work man because you are appreciate your platform and you're you know just a professionalism man and just who you are brother

[01:00:57] I'm here for it all bro listeners make sure you follow Dr. Jasper check out his TED talk because that talk man you don't have you in your field as man but it is definitely aware awareness

[01:01:10] that we need to have of some of the things that black males black men are going through and like we talked about today to beat that support system and to understand how to support

[01:01:18] black men and black males and black boys because we don't get enough of that and you know listen to our stories man and and you know let's be better how we deal with black men and of course

[01:01:30] remember your mind is the most powerful tool in the universe therefore if you can think it you can do it if you believe in it you can be it and if you fight for it you can have it the world

[01:01:40] is yours this has been your hope mr. G and I will see you next time on Masterman